From South Texas Dirt to Silver Horn Ranch | Ben Schmidtke

Welcome to the very first episode of the Texas Campfire Podcast.

Host Mark Hubbard sits down with longtime friend Ben Schmidke of Silver Horn Ranch near Freer, Texas, for a conversation rooted in South Texas ranching, wildlife management, and the lessons that come from a life spent on the land.

Ben shares how growing up on a pecan farm and ranch in Pearsall shaped his passion for wildlife, hunting, land stewardship, and ranch life. From whitetail deer management and DMP pens to exotic species conservation, water systems, predator control, habitat work, cattle, quail, and raising kids on a ranch, this episode gives listeners a true look into what it takes to manage a modern Texas ranch the right way.

This conversation is about more than hunting or ranching. It’s about legacy, responsibility, conservation, and preserving the knowledge and stories that make Texas so special.

So pull up a chair, gather around the fire, and join us for the first episode of the Texas Campfire Podcast.

Life is always better when there’s dirt under your feet.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Well folks, uh thank you for joining us today. I'm here with uh with my friend Bid Schmidke. He's at the Silverhorn Ranch uh near Freer, Texas, uh over in Duval County, beautiful rolling hills, part of the state of Texas, where it doesn't rain very much, but uh he was just telling me they've had some good rains recently, and and so we're we're all happy to hear that. But uh Ben, I really do appreciate your making the trip. Of course. Um you and I go back, I don't know, 10, 12, 14 years, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Just and I at the time that I met you, you were doing the what was it called? The Round Table, South Texas Round Table or something.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yeah, it was the uh the rising circle. That's what it was the rising circle.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Rising circle. And how old were you at that time?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Man, I guess I would have been like 22.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

I remember when I met you, I was so impressed that somebody your age um had the passion uh to put things like that together. And uh I went to a few, and you would have 20, 25, 30 ranch owners, uh managers, people like that, just exchanging ideas and coordinating efforts and learning from one another. And at that point in time I knew that I had a very high amount of respect for you. And uh you could run a Fortune 500 company if you wanted to, and and and you're just about R over there at the at the Silverhorn. So tell me what y'all have been up to lately over at Silverhorn.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Man, we stay pretty busy over there. Um we've been uh we've been up to a lot. Um, you know, I've been out there, the the land was was purchased uh by my landowner in 2016, and uh of course you were a large part of that. And um since then we've you know added more acreage and and uh and expanded and um built structures and um added species and gotten into the exotics, cattle, um, whitetails, and uh yeah, we stay we stay busy. We're constantly, you know, every year I I kind of look at the year ahead and think we don't have too much on the schedule yet this year. And you know, there's this one or two little projects I want to hit, and then like as the year progresses, we're we're always adding to that, which is a good thing. I'm not complaining um at all, but you know, it's it's nice to be um a part of a program that's that's constantly looking for ways that we can improve and expand versus just idling um or or or doing the opposite. Sure. Um, which is uh which is really neat to be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

So tell me there was something in your raising that gave you a passion uh for doing what you do today. Tell me about that. Where are you from and how did you get started?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yes, sir. So grew up in in Pearsall, Texas, uh in Frio County, and um I was blessed to to be born and raised on a on a ranch on a pecan farm, actually. So my dad's a pecan farmer, and uh we grew up outside of Pearsall um on that pecan orchard, and um he still owns and operates that pecan orchard to this day. So he's they've been there for you know, I don't know, 40 plus years.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

So you're telling me you got started night shooting deer in a pecan orchard?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Is that we'll we'll we'll talk about that behind the scenes. Um a lot of night shooting raccoons though, coons. I'm sure uh that was a constant thing in the at the pecan orchard, but uh my dad also took care of some ranch land uh nearby um uh in addition to the pecan orchard. So had that, you know, the farming and the ranching aspect growing up. Um and I always gravitated towards the the the stuff on the ranch. Um I was more interested in that and would rather be on the ranch property that he managed than than on the the pecan orchard. But um, but obviously, you know, being a part of the family, the the pecan orchard kept us busy, and that was something we had to help with growing up. I was homeschooled growing up. Um, and so that allowed us to do a lot of work um for the family. We took um our summer breaks were actually in the fall during harvest season, and my mom structured our school year that way because we needed all of us, uh it was me and my three siblings, um, to help with pecan harvest in the in the month of October and November. Interesting. So that was kind of why they they structured our school year that way so we could um help with the harvest. And then um in addition to that, you know, it's hunting season during that time of year.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

So that allowed me to to do a lot of hunting growing up. Um and I wasn't sitting in in school.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

That's a pretty old-fashioned business model here.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, no, I highly recommend it for anyone, you know, do do your summer, your summer break in October, November, December versus whenever it's 110 outside, you know, that's when you need to be in the classroom, not uh not on summer break. So, anyways, that was you know, growing up, and I worked on some other places um around Frio County in addition to my dad's places growing up for some other people. And um, and that's really where you know I knew from the moment I could uh walk and talk that you know I was gonna be working on a ranch for the rest of my life, and that's what I wanted to do. And that was really the only thing I ever focused on and pursued. Um I was never a kid um that you know was curious or wondered what I was gonna do when I grew up or changed that answer, you know, over the years. It was always gonna work on a ranch. Right. Of course, you know, what else is there? Um, so anyway, it's really lucky that I grew up where I did and and uh and um my parents were able to you know give me those opportunities to to work on the ranches and work for some other people and um that's really where it all started there in there in Pearsall. That is great history. I never knew that. Yes, sir, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

So college, where did you where did you go?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

So I ended up um in Stevenville at Tarleton State. Right. Um, I went with a buddy up there, and you know, like I said, knowing that I was going to be, you know, working on a ranch, and uh I always knew I wanted to stay in South Texas, so I decided to to go up north to Stephenville and see a different part of the state for those couple years. Right. Um, you know, I was real tempted to go to Kingsville, and and at the time I actually planned on going to Charlton just for a year or two and getting my basics done and then transferring to Kingsville. But Stevenville is a great part of the state, and I met my wife up there and was just having too much fun in Stephenville to leave. So I ended up staying there for for my my whole four years of college. Um, and then you know, was right back in South Texas um two days after graduation, I think.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

So that's how you met your wife. We have always joked about you outkicking your coverage.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

I didn't know you had to go across the state to not only outkicked it, but I had to I had to travel, travel a little ways north. So um I was lucky enough she followed me back south, yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Right, right. So if I remember correctly, uh you were involved in some in some whitetail breeding um before actually you worked on a couple of ranches before you wound up at Silverhorn. But don't you have some uh some deer of your own in Pearsall?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

You know, that actually I I don't anymore. Um it's a cool story I'll tell real quick. So um I got into the deer breeding business myself personally um in 2007. And um I think I was 16 or 15 at the time. Um I was gifted um a fawn that I bottle fed two fawns, two doe fawns, um, from a close family friend. And um, anyways, she knew I was real passionate about it and and decided she wanted to gift me these these two do finds. Can I ask you that was? So her name was Hallie Stoker. She's no longer with us, but she was uh uh a ranch owner there in Frio County and had a ranch, didn't quite neighbor us, but real close, and um just a real neat um lady and uh and real close family friend. And um anyway, so she had gifted me these these two dophons that summer of 2007 that I bottle fed and raised up and then built a pen eventually there behind the house and would haul them each breeding season to um another close friend to to get them bread and then would bring them back home. Because you didn't have a buck, you had a buck. This was like, yeah, I was I was on a 16-year-old budget, right? And you weren't doing artificial insemination all the time. No, I mean I was in high school, and uh anyway, so so I started off with them myself and it it grew to a you know a few deer over the years and would just kind of sell phones and they were family pets more than anything, and and that that doe from 2007 actually passed away uh this year, so it would have made her 19 years old if my homeschool math is right. And um, yeah, so no longer in the deer business personally anymore. I don't think we'll, you know, we just had her and still have the permit going because of that. But um, anyways, um, but yeah, had my own there um from that deal and then also grew up like working on some some ranches that had the the deer pens and so got involved in it um, you know, at a real young age through through those other ranches as well. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

I've got to ask you because it's interesting, and I I know it'll be interesting to other people. At at what age did that doe stop having fawns or raising?

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So we actually I I don't we we stopped breeding her um once she was probably maybe 10 or 12 years old. I see, okay. Yeah, it it just yeah. So um so yeah, I'm not really sure how far she how long she would have gone. She was always a great mom though. Right. And her sister made it to like 12 or 13 years old, I think it was. Yeah, yeah, really cool special deal. Yeah, that is so so yeah, technically I became a a deer breeder in 2007. And um, like I said, funny story. So I was 15 or 16 at the time, and whenever I applied for the permit with Parks and Wildlife, the deer breeder permit, I I couldn't they they had never given a permit to someone under 18. So, like throughout the process of filling out the paperwork and you know, figured out my birth date, it was kind of one of these deals like I don't think we can do this. So it's actually the permit is actually under my my dad's name, which my dad was extremely involved with the program as well, and and he took care of those deer for me after I left for college, and and they were his deer just as much as they were mine and my mom's and them. So it I didn't mind it, but yeah, it was just kind of an interesting deal, like like that permit is under my dad's name, not mine, because I was under 18 at the time.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Right. God, that is really interesting. Yeah, and I'm sure there was nothing in the regulations that said they couldn't give you a permit as a minor, but maybe there was. I don't recall. I just know it it went under my dad's name. So wow, that is really neat. Yes, sir. That's good. So um after college, you where did you go from there?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yeah, so graduated college and um and uh I was working summers back down south on some places, and uh right after college, I graduated and uh was on a ranch in George West in Live Oak County. And um, I was down there pretty much um as soon as as soon as graduation, I walked across that stage and got in my truck and and got back to work. And uh and I was on that place and my wife and I, we got married that year as well, and we were down there in in George West for a I guess two years or so, and um then ended up taking an opportunity at a at another ranch, uh a little bigger piece of property and and stuff in Adascosa County. And we were in Adascosa County outside of Charlotte um for about a year, a little over a year, I guess, and then got the opportunity that um on the property that we're on now in 2016. So we've been in Freer now for 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

That's awesome. I had um uh the gentleman that owns the ranch you work on, your boss, had uh contacted me looking for somebody to work on the ranch when he bought it, and and uh he had a handful of names and he said, What would you do? And I said, hire Ben. Just hire Ben. Don't even think about it anymore. And I think he did that day, and it it I thank you for making me look good because he absolutely loved me.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Looking back, it was, I mean, obviously it's it's been the best thing we ever did, and uh, and really uh appreciate you know our past experiences we've we've had on those other properties, and they were certainly all all stepping stones and and provided us with a lot at the time, and but um we just couldn't be happier where we're at today. Oh, of course. And um, yeah, the the it's a it's a very special ranch.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Um well and we really love and your kids, I can't remember their ages now, but they don't know anything but Silverhorn, do they?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

That's it. No, they don't. My oldest is eight. You know, Wyatt's eight, and uh the youngest West, Wesley, he's five. Um they just both had a birthday this month. I still joke with the five-year-old that he's they're still four. We're we're we're arguing with the fact that he he's not allowed to grow up, so I want him to still be four, but he is he is five, unfortunately. So yeah, eight and five. So yeah, no, they were both born on the ranch, and uh that's all they know. Um Wyatt goes to school in Tilden. Um, and uh and they grew up on Silverhorn, so yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Man, that is just great. That's fantastic. So um let's talk about Silverhorn a little bit. Yep. Um I think when he bought the ranch it was high fenced. There were some good deer there, but not not quite not quite what the boss wanted. So how did you get started and what were your goals when you started the Whitetail program?

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yes, sir. So no, we like you said, we got started in in 2016 was the initial land purchase, and uh there was a good a good deer herd on the on the property. It it had been high fenced for a number of years and been managed well. So we were uh lucky enough to to be able to take over something that didn't need just a you know huge turnover, but we definitely um have done a lot. So we pretty much immediately implemented the DMP program, and we still use that permit and that program today. And you know, that's in my opinion, probably can you tell everybody what a DMP is for I sure will, yeah. So um it's the deer management uh permit, deer management pen, I believe is what it actually stands for. Um and it's a permit that that Parks and Wildlife has created to allow landowners to take whitetailed deer off their property um within a high-fenced property and um catch them in the fall. And you can take uh you build a pen that's anywhere from you know minimum of five acres in size and or larger, and uh you can catch does off your property and put them into that pen and then catch a buck off your property as well and put them in, put him in there to breed those does. And so essentially I always tell people you're hitting the fast forward button because you know that buck is gonna breed all 20 of those does in that one breeding season. For that same buck to breed 20 does, that's gonna take in the wild, that's gonna take him, you know, probably his whole life or at least multiple years to accomplish to have that much of a genetic impact on your herd.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

So being able to take your favorite buck off your property and and have him in that pen to breed those 20 doughs is you're just hitting the fast forward button on your on your genetics. And um, so we've we implemented that and um we love that permit, and we have multiple DMP pins throughout the property now, and we do that every year. And that's probably been that that's what we've done to impact the genetics on the ranch. Um, we do have deer breeding pins, and those are mainly to produce the breeder bucks that we use in the DMP pins. So a lot of the time I'll end up instead of catching deer off the ranch, I like to I like to see the deer on the ranch and we hunt. So it's nice to like we have so many DMP pins that if I was to catch each breeder buck for those DMP pins off the property, I don't know, like I first of all get nervous about catching them out of a helicopter, but then secondly, like I like to have them there on the property to look at all hunting season or or to hunt, right? Right. If they're in the DMP pen, I can't do that. So I would prefer to grab a a breeder buck from the DMP or a breeder buck from the breeder pins to use as a DMP breeder in those pins. So we we have the breeding operation to kind of supply the DMP pins with breeder bucks and occasionally some um does as well. Absolutely. We primarily catch the the does off the ranch and then and then bring a breeder buck in, breed them, and then um they all get released after they fawn out. And um, so we did that, and then um um that's been our biggest thing. We've also added some additional land since the initial purchase, and uh we're up to um uh about 11,000 acres now, just under 11,000 acres. That's fantastic, yes, sir. So um, and it's all contiguous. There is some separate pastures, um, but it is all connected and contiguous, so we treat it as one and uh and yeah, manage the deer throughout. And that's our primary focus is the the whitetailed deer herd. And you know, we don't we're not a commercial operation, we don't sell any hunts, as you know. It's all for the friends and family with the landowner and um and a few business related deals as well. And so we're really blessed that we don't have the pressure or the, you know, just a commercial operation. I've been on those in the past, and it's just a different feel. You know, you have clients coming in that don't know the property and they're coming in for their one week in a year, and you got to get them a deer, and it's a very transactional process, I feel like. Whereas with the you know, with the Silverhorn, um, there's a lot more, it doesn't feel so transactional. It's a family place. The people that come out and hunt come multiple times throughout the year and have been coming for 10 years. So they know the property, they appreciate the property. A lot of these people help us with things and you know, um, and and have sweat equity in the property as well. So those guys I really enjoy um getting to take hunting and and they just I feel like there's so much more appreciation whenever you know what it took to um get to that point or to grow that deer or to come hunt that weekend. There's so much more that they, you know, saw that you don't get with a commercial place. And uh you don't have the pressure of like, you know, we got to get this guy killed out, it's Sunday morning, you know, um they can come back or you know, whatever. They're just happy to be there.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

That's what I was gonna say. What another neat aspect of that kind of operation is that guy has the stomach to pass up a giant five-year-old knowing he's coming back next year and he may get another poke at that deer when he's bigger. Absolutely. Whereas a guy that's just a one-time shot coming in, it's real hard to hold him off of those young good ones. Yeah. Uh so it just changes everything. I mean, it does. It's a completely different kind of operation. It is. It's it's very, very special in that way. And and I'm sure a lot of the friends and family that you entertain year after year after year, they're all like family to you.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

No, absolutely right. I mean, that watch my kids grow up and and I consider them family and and close friends and people I talk to, you know, on a daily basis. And uh no, it it's absolutely become that. And good.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Well, I don't want to take us backwards, but just a quick side note on the DMP pens. Uh I started using uh DMP pens in 05 on our family ranch, and uh it's funny because the focus is and was you know, concentrating genetics. Pick pick the your favorite buck on the ranch and put him on 20 native doughs and and and concentrate those genetics. But what I quickly learned in uh the desert environment that we all operate in down here is the real added benefit, in addition to genetics, was the fawn crop. It it used to take a hundred does to raise 30 fawns to a year old in the pasture. And I found in DMP pens, long-term averages, 20 doughs will raise 30 fawns in a DMP pen. Yes, sir. So all of a sudden, you don't need to feed a hundred does to get the fawns that you need for your your replacement. And it's just an I've always called it the silver bullet of deer management. It's just unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I agree 100%. No, you that's a huge benefit, is the is the fawn thing, absolutely. Sure. That you're you're removing the predator aspect um that they're normally having to be out there and and um defend themselves from predators and just to be able to them for for them to fawn out and raise their fawns in that pen and then get turned out. Um, it's a huge benefit. Um, sometimes it, you know, it's a bad thing because you all of a sudden you got all these deer you got to deal with, but um, but no, you can take that. So I agree the the fawn benefits huge.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

It's a good problem to have. It is, yes, sir. So um cattle. Um, y'all raise cattle on the ranch?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

We do. We have some cows and uh we've been raising them since the beginning as well. Um we keep the herd small. Um it that way we can manage them easily.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Wildlife is your focus.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Wildlife is the focus, yeah. The cattle are are are for the steaks and for the ground meat. We we raise all our, you know, all the all the meat we serve on the ranch is is from the ranch. So whether it be wild game, of course, or uh our meat chickens or our cattle. Um so we we raise the cattle, we take plenty to the cell barn, but the you know, we slaughter a few every year too to keep our our freezers full. Did you say you have meat chickens too? We've done that before. Um I didn't know. I don't necessarily recommend it, but uh, but we did have silverhorn chickens there for well, we still have the chickens for the eggs, but uh we did do meat chickens once, and we'll probably end up doing them again. It they're it's very good.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

They're just a little more um messy to deal with than the cattle are. Sure, sure. Well, you know, it's good to have some cattle on the ranch. I mean, it at certain densities they certainly affect the wildlife, but I I think a ranch that never has hoof action and grazing from from livestock, I think in in the long run, it's not a good thing. Yes, sir. So as long as you can keep them in balance, I I think it's great to have some cattle on the ranch.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

No, I agree. We have just enough where I feel like it's not a huge chore. Um, but they're like I say, they're manageable and they do provide the habitat with that benefit. Um, and uh, but then it's not something that's just, you know, part of our daily focus either. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

But what about uh what about birds? Quail, turkey, are y'all do y'all work with them at all?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

We do. You know, that's we try to just think of every species that's on the ranch whenever we we, you know, do things on the property as far as um habitat management or or whatever it is. Um, we love our quail and we do a lot of quail hunting. Um We have good numbers of quail. You know, it it fluctuates a lot with the weather in Freer. Um, and we're not, you know, but we have done a lot to the ranch. I feel like that's probably one of our um, you know, top improvements is the habitat work that we've done to provide areas to to raise quail more efficiently. There are always quail there, but it's very easy to see what we've done and how much those numbers have improved over the years. We've just opened up a lot of areas that were historically just thick brush, and we've come in and done a lot of uh mechanical habitat manipulation to provide and and and then planting of native grasses um in place uh to provide habitat for those quail. And and we see um, you know, results from that um right away. And our quail numbers have really gone up and and made them more huntable. You know, we've got areas that we can come in and and hunt effectively, and we're not just hopping around on a jeep from feeder to feeder or something like that. Exactly. You know, got areas now opened up where we're doing traditional quail hunts and and we do a couple of those every year. Not a lot, um, but a couple every year with the family and uh typically around the holidays and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

And uh yeah, we just it's kind of marginal quail country.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

It is it is so but it makes for you know, those five, six, seven or eight quail hunts we do a year are are really fun days and and really special. And uh so we we do, you know, like the quail and uh have great turkey hunting in the spring and uh great dove hunting in September. Oh yeah, yeah. If they're fine. So and we yeah, we we and we try to you know do things for each of those species, you know, with our dove fields and and to to give us spots to hunt and and give areas uh to bring them in better.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

So uh a lot of people don't realize that that you know down in this part of the world, the you know water availability is number one. It's huge probably uh in the wildlife world. How many I'm not talking about cow traughs or tanks, but how many water holes, small watering units, pipelines, what have you all done with water uh on the ranch?

SPEAKER_01 24:07

We have done a lot. That is something we are constantly dealing with and adding on to is our water system. And I think water is huge. And and in Freer, it's tough. Um, our groundwater is is not very available. Um, we do have groundwater, but it's minimal. So, you know, most of our wells are making six to eight gallons a minute at the best, um, at the most. So we have quite a few water wells and um and then we we utilize uh and stretch those wells to their maximum capacity and try to be real cautious with what you know, we're not we're not just wasting it, we're we're using it. And yeah, we've put in a a huge system of water lines and laid water to every inch of the ranch and to every corner. Um, and um, and I think that's a huge uh benefit for uh, you know, any property, but especially where we're at, um, because it is so hot, you know, in the summertime when when the bucks are growing and when the does are raising fawns. I mean, that's such a crucial time of year for a whitetail, for a quail, for for anything in that part of the world, it's just so hot. And that's typically when they're, like I say, raising a fawn, growing antlers and doing these things. And if they're having to walk a mile to water um or search for it, or or it's dried up or not working, um, that's gonna impact them, you know, negatively. So we we focus on water and it's real important to us. And we try to have it as many places. I mean, if I'll sit there and look at a map and have all our water troughs laid out, and if there's a hole somewhere where we're missing a water line or missing a water trough, you know, we're we're we're trenching a line, we're putting one in and and making something work.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

But um, but yeah, no, we've we've got a lot of water. Well, I mean, if if you think about it, I've heard numbers like, you know, you want to have a water source for every, you know, 40 to 50 acres of land. You're managing 11,000 acres. That's a lot of water.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

It is a lot of water. Yeah. I mean, uh, we joke like me and the guys, you know, we're we're we're plumbers and part-time ranchers um because it feels like there's uh there's a plumbing job every week for sure, if not every day. But uh yeah, I mean, water is huge, man.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

I know some areas not too far from you have pretty salty or brackish water that's not very good. How is your water on the ranch?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

It varies. Some wells, you know, we do have that to deal with, so we'll have to treat it going into houses. It's real hard, you know. You gotta have water softeners and RO systems. Um, but it's luckily fine for livestock. So um, for all our, you know, we don't have to do anything um out on the ranch. Just it's mainly just for the houses and for people drinking it and whatnot. But um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

So you're in the water business. We are, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

No doubt. No doubt. I I know you're doing it right, and that's why I wanted to bring it up because so few people understand that that's number one down here. If without the water, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah, you know, I think it's one of those aspects of living on a ranch, like a lot of people probably don't, you know, think every day when they turn on their sink, you know, where the water comes from or how it how that part works. And you know, that's something that my kids, I think, have an appreciation of, or like know, like, you know, there's sometimes you turn on the sink and there's not water, and that's because we got an issue somewhere and you know, we got to go fix it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Um, so yeah, it's definitely a uh daily um you know, I'm I'm glad you brought that up, Ben. And and this is way off subject, but I think it's worth talking about. You know, in in the world we live in today, so few people don't know where things come from. And when you've spent some time on a ranch or lived on a ranch, you realize you have a storm, lightning takes out a transformer, you lose your water well, you might not have water for a couple of days. And when you raise your children in that environment, they get it. They're okay. Absolutely, they'll survive. Water goes out in New York City for two days. Do people just curl up in a ball or what?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, no, I think that's probably exactly what they do, and hope someone does something about it. Whereas, you know, we're the ones doing something about it at the ranch. So um, no, you're right. It definitely gives you a whole nother perspective and uh probably makes you appreciate those things a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

A hundred percent. Yeah, that's exactly right. So I I just I just wanted to bring that up because it crossed my mind. I thought, man, what a great way for a kid to grow up in this time. They'll they probably don't think it's great when they don't have water, but later on in life they will appreciate it. Yes, sir. Um, so I I think that's just awesome that you are blessed to the level that that you guys can raise your kids in that environment. No, I agree. It's gonna get them miles ahead in life, in my opinion. Yes, sir. So um you've developed this unbelievable whitetail herd. I've seen the pictures, and they're fantastic, and you have absolutely killed it. Let's transition over to exotics. Um you have put together quietly, not everybody knows what's going on at Silverhorn. One of the most impressive lists of exotics that I've ever seen. Um and I and I'll let you go into detail on this, but I'm not talking about raising exotics in pens. I'm talking about the last time I was on the ranch and saw a herd of sable walking through that sagebrush, it it just took me to another world. Like it's just amazing. And uh so it's a big subject, but let's get into that. Let's talk about all the species that you have and what you've done for them and and why you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah, no, we we've definitely expanded um into the Africa and the exotic species um quite a bit, and it's something that that we really enjoy and and have a lot of passion for, but we also want to do it right and make sure that we're doing it with the right, um, you know, the right reasons. Um we're not hunting we will hunt a few of the exotic species, um, the stuff that's kind of more your your planes game and your more common species out on the ranch, but that's never what it was really for. Um we enjoy having them and and conserving those species and uh enjoying them and learning about them, and but we want to raise them in a habitat and in a way that that they're used to or what they were meant to be raised in. Um so we try to keep our our enclosures large and our pastures big, and we'll even plant, you know, we use a lot of uh like buffal grass, for example, is a great um species of grass that can um uh produce feed for a lot of animals. And it's not native to Texas, but it's native to native to Africa. So we use a lot of buffal grass in those areas for those species to to graze on, and that's something that they're used to.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

And and um and not to interrupt you, but uh that's a real interesting point. Um a lot of times wildlife biologists people always say plant native grasses, plant native grasses, don't bring in the buffal grass, it's an invader, et cetera, et cetera. But in a part of the world where it rains, the I guess your annual average is probably 17 inches of rain.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yes, sir, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Uh a bad year can be eight or ten inches of rain, which is probably what you had last year. Um, and so many of our birds, uh, all the wildlife, in order to raise young, they need ground cover. Right. They need grass to hide those babies in uh to preserve moisture on the ground level where those babies are. And so it's interesting when you try to balance all these different things. Sometimes those non-natives aren't so bad. Sometimes they can help you in moderation.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

In moderation, right. Yeah, in certain areas, you certainly don't want it, you know, I wouldn't want it across the whole ranch. Um, it gets pretty thick, but but that's a benefit of it, like you say. I mean, there's a lot of years and summers where it's been dry, and that buffal grass, it may be brown, but it's still giving a fawn a quail cover, um, whereas your native grasses that are a little bit uh thinner wouldn't be able to provide that when it's that dry. Um, so it's it's definitely beneficial in in that way and does really good in South Texas. It does really good on our ranch and our soil type. It's something that we've we've we've utilized a lot. And um, and then yeah, it's also very efficient in that you can graze, you know, and obviously not, you know, deer and stuff aren't you know, using it for the dietary aspect, but a lot of those exotics that we raise are grazers. So you don't need a lot of buffal grass to feed a lot of animals.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Um it's really uh and you can keep them off the natives, uh right. Keep them from browsing more than they should, which benefits the natives.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Well, and it's it helps the feed bill too. When we get the when we're when we're blessed with rain and they they're not, you know, uh eating as much alfalfa and eating more buffal grass, that certainly helps.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Surely you don't you don't feed a lot there at the Silverhorn Ranch.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Oh man, it it varies. We were there for a while, but uh the rain certainly helps.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Oh, absolutely for sure. And again, not to get off subject, but but in talking about the ground cover and the buffal grass, uh what's become a real hot button in in the last couple of weeks is is predator control. Um how much do you all do there on the Silverhorn Ranch to help recruitment in your wildlife and your exotics?

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah, I mean, I think uh we we do do we have a predator management plan and uh that involves a trapper that we hire. Um we've gone out and and found who we think is is probably one of the better trappers um out there. And uh we hire him and his wife come in every year in uh February typically, which is kind of the peak month for those coyotes. That's when they're out breeding and the most active and they're hungry typically that time of year. And uh we hire him to come in for three weeks and he lives on the property and does nothing but but trap for those coyotes and bobcats um for the month of for three weeks in February, and that helps a tremendous amount. How many traps can he run at a time? So typically his trap line um it's well over a hundred. I don't know if he's ever made it quite to 200. It probably is over 200 if you include like snares, but a lot of it's like footholds. Right. And um, yeah, he'll show me his, you know, after a week of being here or a couple days really of being at the ranch, he'll have most of his stuff set up and he'll show me his GPS, you know, uh map on his phone of all the plotted points where his traps are, and it's just like he's got the whole ranch covered. So they do a tremendous job, and I think that helps a lot. Um, that's kind of our big push every year when it comes to predators is doing that. And then of course, we're you know, shooting everything we see or get a chance at throughout the year. We run some snares and stuff as well throughout the year. And then uh, and then if we're you know doing our our game survey, helicopter survey, um at the end of each year, we'll we'll carry a shotgun with us and we can pick up a few like that. But um, you know, the predator control is definitely you know, on that size of a place, you're never gonna take care of all of them. Uh, I'm never gonna be able to say, you know, we don't have a coyote on the that's just something you're gonna have to deal with. But I think you know, the trapping's definitely helpful, but I think the habitat management gets overlooked a lot of time too. Like, you know, predators are always gonna be part of the equation, but if you can and provide areas where they can adequately hide their offspring and and and get away and there be cover areas, I think that is something that's overlooked a lot of the time. That that's gonna help you.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

And that goes back to water as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, no, water, I mean, all those things help with the recruitment, of course, but but the habitat I think is is really big. Um, you know, you gotta have the you gotta have a proper home for them, um, you know, in addition to taking care of the predators.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

So are you willing to tell me how many bobcats and coyotes he'll take in two months? So we three weeks rather.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, no, typically it's around like 30 to 40 coyotes and uh typically a few more bobcats. We're it's a big cat area. Um, that area of free air that's just known for having a lot of bobcats. So yeah, I would say anywhere from 30 to 40 plus coyotes and 35 to 45 plus bobcats in that three-week window every year, along with some random other stuff, you know, your coons and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Mountain lions?

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Any sightings or you know, uh, me personally, I've never seen a mountain lion on Silverhorn. Um, there's been a few sightings, um, but uh none confirmed. And uh I've seen some tracks once that the trapper was able to identify, so I would, you know, say we definitely have them. They're there, but you know, all the game cameras rerun and all that, we've never had like an official uh sighting of one.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Um but I know they're around. Yeah, I mean, you don't you don't have a river or any major creek bottoms, which they sure they kind of focus on those as as travel corridors. Yes, sir. But but they're there, there's no doubt about it. I'm sure. You know, it it I was talking to somebody the other day. I've been involved in ranching one way or another my entire life, and uh have spent a good amount of time in the brush, in a helicopter, in a truck, in an ATV, you know, doing what we do. I've seen two in my life. Okay. One out of a helicopter and one out of a truck. And the funny part about the one in South Texas. Both in South Texas. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, the one I saw out of a truck, we had uh 10 people in a top drive. The stereo was playing, the girls were drinking red wine, and we were loud. And this mountain, this mountain lion walked out and walked down the road straight away from us and went into the brush like he was never even alarmed. Really? About a hundred yards in front of us. Wow. But when you think about it, uh they're out there, you know. There's just no question, there's lots of them. And but to think about how nocturnal and not only that, but how smart they are, all the hours that we spend in blinds.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Think about the countless hours you have spent outside in South Texas and the fact that you've only seen two.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

I mean, that goes to show I'm 60 years old. I've seen two in my life.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, no, I I saw one in high school growing up. Um, I was shredding a fence line on a place in in Derby, south of Pearsall, and uh was come up coming up to a corner. I was in like an open cab tractor, just shredding this fence line, and took a left, and I'll never forget it. I mean, I'm sure the sightings you have you can replay in your mind clear as day. For sure. And uh yeah, I took a left and uh he was probably a hundred yards down, and I just saw from like the flank back, um, not the whole body that he was going into the brush. He may have been on the fence line, I think, and he heard me coming and went into the brush, and I but I'll never forget that long tail. I mean, it was you know, it was definitely a mountain lion.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Yeah, you know when you see him, you know it. But I mean, you're you you spent your whole life in the brush. You've seen one, it's just it's just an incredible thing. It is very cool. Of course, you know, you see them more in the mountain country out west and whatnot, just because visibility is so much better, but the right the thickness of our brush just makes it impossible. Um a friend of mine uh killed one several years back. This was over around Sanderson. Okay, but um they were driving down a road with his kids, and the girl said, I just saw a mountain lion crawling that bush over there, and he said, No, you absolutely did not. Well, she insisted, and they went over and drove up to it and had to throw rocks in there, and he came running out of that brush and wound up killing him. I'll be dang. But that cat was just gonna lay there and let him drive by, which I guarantee you've driven by 200 of them. Right. You just don't have the opportunity to see them.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Yeah, a buddy of mine killed one um in McMullen County, um, or no, I'm sorry, Webb County, uh two years ago, I guess it was. And it's a really cool story that I'll say for him. But but uh he was like in a tree stand um in a river bottom and uh the noasis and uh and killed one when came out when he was hunting a deer. Yeah, pretty cool deal. But you just never know.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Why don't that happen to me, damn it? Right, right. Um let's get back on exotics. I took you completely off track.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yeah, no, you're good. Um so so yeah, we started raising the exotics. We probably got our I mean, there were um, I think some black buck on the property um year one, and uh so I guess we've had them from the beginning, but we've expanded um a whole lot here in the last probably five years, I guess. And um we're up to 16 or so species now of different species that we raise. 16 species. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Wow. Um, and a lot of that, like I say, just in the last, you know, five or six years. So it's it's really been um something that we've um done recently and and had to learn quickly. Um, but we're blessed to, you know, have some good resources with other ranches that we've you know definitely learned from and and pick their brain and and you know, uh figured out what we need to do to do it right. And uh it's a it's a really great um part of Silverhorn that I really enjoy. Um it's so fun to to be able to take people through those pastures and see those species because it's not something you see a lot of people, you know, it's it's the first time in their life they're seeing some of these animals, and a lot of the animals that we have people didn't even know exist.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

So, once again, you're not a commercial hunting operator. No, sir. That's not that's not the motivation. Why are we doing this?

SPEAKER_01 41:35

You know, the landowner really enjoys knowing that, you know, not only that we can go see these species, but just the conservation aspect of it is huge. Like the way we raise them and a lot of these species, not a lot, but there's a few of these species that we have that are endangered in their in their native land and they're thriving in Texas. So just to be a part of that conservation success story is really um um, you know, something that that we really enjoy to be a part of. And so I think that's kind of the primary, you know, reason behind it. Um, and also, you know, just being able to take people that otherwise would have never been exposed to these species because they're, you know, from the city or not gonna have the opportunity to travel to Africa one day, but they can come to Silverhorn and learn about them and see them. That part's really cool. And um so that's kind of I think the main the main reason. Um, and they're fun and and really cool to to manage and a challenge to manage. I mean, each species different, and it's been tough sometimes to figure that out and you know, to figure out what each species needs, whether it's nutrition or you know, how to handle them, um, which drugs to use, which drugs don't do work, which drugs don't, and and different things that they that they require. Um, but it's been you know very rewarding at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Sure, absolutely. Do you mind? I you actually sent me a list of all the species, and I know this sounds like a a really big task, but we can we go through them one at a time and have you just spend a minute telling us about each one?

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Yeah, no, I can. So out on the ranch, like in the big pasture, we have some free-ranging herds that we don't manage as closely as we do in some of the smaller areas. Um, and those species are like the Gims buck, the black buck, the Axis, um, we have scimitar oryx in a separate pasture.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Some of the more common stuff.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

The more common stuff. Um, have some nilguy, some Eland. And then in areas that we manage a little closer and actually, you know, selectively breed, where we'll have like just one breeder bull in with a group of females and that'd be our breeding herd. And we'll wean calves and stuff like that, like those type of um uh species that we raise that way. We have the the black sable, the greater kudu, inyala, bongo, lesser kudu, Grant Sazelle, Impala, uh Grevy zebra.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Talk about that Grevy zebra.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yeah, so the Grevy zebra is one of those species I was uh mentioning earlier that that's um I think they're critically endangered in their native land. Um, but they there's more in Texas than there is there in Africa.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

And uh so we have a a herd of grevis, so that's really so this is a species that may have one or two hundred remaining yes sir in the world. Well, I think not in Texas.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Yeah, not counting Texas. Right, right. So we yeah, we have them and they're they're such a cool animal, man. They're where are they from? They're huge. I'm not sure exactly what part of Africa. I should know that. Um, but um, I'd be lying to you if I if I told you something. But um, but we do have a herd of them, and they're they're really cool species. You said they're real big, they're large, they're they're bigger than your that's what everyone says, because you know, most people have seen a zebra on the side of the road or at a zoo, but that's a different species than than the grevys. Not many people have seen a grevys, and the grevies are a lot larger. I mean, they're they're big animals. Different colorations, yeah. They're tight, or their stripes are like a little tighter um than the broad um zebra, but they're still you know, the black and white, very tight striped, and they stripe all the way down to their hooves and all the way up to their head. There's no like section where it's bare, so they're gorgeous. And um, but yeah, they're a tough species. They're very they're very social with each other. You can't just bring in a new one and expect for them to get along or you know, kind of like people. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Um, so they're tough. They're they're one that you have to, you know, it they're they have a whole social dynamic that you have to learn and and manage. And uh yeah, they can and it you know, there's a lot of challenges with them, but that goes to show why they're having the troubles they're having back in Africa, like why they're endangered, because they're just yeah, they're they're they're tough to get um to reproduce and and so they stay within a social group, and if that group gets wiped out, right, they're gone. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Because there's there's not a lot of communication between groups.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Well, and and the studs can be real aggressive to some of the offspring and stuff. So you could have a bad stud and not know it if you're not you know managing them properly, and and that could be you know, he could be harming those those offspring. Um so yeah, there's a lot of things that are acting against them, but um, but we're able to manage all that and and enjoy them. So we have them and um yeah, we do have a herd of cake buffalo as well. Um, we've got some Rowan. Um I think I pretty much covered them all, but but um yeah, we really really enjoy all those exotic species.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

So you kind of alluded to some of the species that you manage a little closer, maybe in smaller enclosures. Um so that people understand why you would do that. Some of your animals you probably paid fifty thousand dollars ahead for a breeding age female. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Uh, you know, absolutely. I mean, the market is is constantly fluctuating, but I think a lot of these species are probably um a little bit more expensive and valuable than people realize um because there's so few, you know, for different reasons. And uh so yes, like you say, if you have that much invested in a herd of animals, it's you know, it's kind of hard to just kick those animals out and see them a couple times a year. The investment's too great. Right. So with that, you know, we try to build our pastures and pens a size that still allows us to be able to get in there and manage those herds, but also still allows enough space where they're not just living out of the feet trough and there's and we're not just putting up a fence, you know, in a random spot. We're selecting it, you know, obviously water, but also like an area that has good soil that we can come in and and you know, before we're building that pin, we're clearing brush and planting grass or depending on what the species is. Right. You know, our species that are browsers are in more brushy pins than the species that are grazers. Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

I think you got to take all that into account before you just yeah, you're not just drawing squares, you're you're picking an area specific to a species.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yes, sir, no doubt. And um so um, yeah, so they're in those areas, but but like you say, you know, being able to manage them is so important. So, you know, we lay eyes on, we have a great team of guys, and um we're real diligent about keeping up with our inventories. You know, I know how many of each of those species we have. And if a newborn, you know, or if we're blessed with a with a newborn, you know, we're we're we're adding that animal to our inventory and and tagging it, and that's you know, going into account. So we're trying to basically lay eyes on each one of those animals of every species every day, typically. You know, of course it you know doesn't always happen, but um that's a big part of the management, just so you can get ahead of things. If there is an issue or an animal that's now off by herself because she's having a calf, or getting a little wormy and maybe the herd's kind of pushing that off, you can take care of it before it becomes hopefully a bigger issue. Um, so we we we get in there and we're in those pins twice a day, every day. That's like our you know habit. You know, every morning, every evening, that's just part of our routine is making a spin through those those areas and checking on all those different animals. And um, and then you know, there's management throughout the year with with weaning your offspring off. That way your your breeder bull isn't, you know, breeding and your genetics getting too tight. If you're leaving females or being over-aggressive, or being overaggressive with the males, you know, pulling those males out. And we have a separate pasture that's away from all of those breeding pens that we use just as a as a bull pasture, we call it. And that's where whenever we wean males from our different species, they all go to that pasture to grow out. So we're not getting rid of them as a as a yearling age. If I'm gonna, you know, if we're gonna sell offspring, sell males, we want it to be a, you know, an animal that's more like four or five years old, so we can see what they're gonna do and and make sure they're healthy and and have been um gotten to an age where they're gonna survive in in any place you put them. Um so we try to grow those males out to three, four years old before we figure out what we're gonna do with them. So having a separate area to do that in that's away from all the females is really cool. And um, and so yeah, so like I said, going back to like having those areas where you can come in and dart and catch and be able to do all that is a huge part of it. If they were just kicked out on the ranch, it'd be a whole different, a whole different ballgame.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Sure, absolutely. And you know, I think it's very important for people to know you're really providing a service, if you will, by perpetuating some of these species that that may not be available uh in the wild someday. Yeah. Um how many dollars do you all get in federal grants or agricultural programs to help pay to take care of those animals?

SPEAKER_01 50:59

So we don't receive any federal grants. Pretty close to zero. Zero. No, it's definitely zero. No, nothing like that.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

And and I mean I'm not gonna ask you for any kind of numbers, but I just think it's really important for people to know that there's not a profit motive in this. I mean, can you offset expenses, live selling some animal? Absolutely. But the expense, the employees, the feed, the fence building, the water distribution, all the things that you do, zero help from any kind of government entity whatsoever. Correct. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

It's mind-boggling. Well, and I think that's that's Texas. Um I mean, that's something that that we're used to doing. Um, and quite frankly, I think, um prefer it that way. Right. Um so and there is, like you say, we we we do look at it as a business to some extent. It definitely helps offset some cost since we aren't a commercial place. That's not our primary focus. Right. But um it does help since we're not selling hunts and doing all that, you know, having some live animal sales each year through our cattle and through our deer and through our exotics. It certainly helps put a dent in that um in that expense category every year.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

But it's not a money-making venture.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

No, unfortunately not. Um let's don't get into that too deep. Let's yeah, he's up on that hover. But uh, but yeah, no, it does help though. I mean, there is a lot of money in it and it can be done. There are a lot of people that do it that way. It's just not, you know, like I say, our our goal right now. Um, but there is a there is plenty of people that have had very successful businesses um in the in by doing exotics. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, it definitely can be done.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Probably when Silverhorn Ranch became Silverhorn Ranch, you had whitetails and a few scattered exotics, but not many. And so the guest opportunities were pretty limited to October, November, December.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Yeah, I mean, we entertained people throughout the whole year, but no, you're right. I mean, that was, you know, when it was hunting season, it was it was all hands on deck, and that's when the pre the majority of people want to come to the ranch, of course. Um, but now, you know, going back to the exotics, like it does provide um entertainment there throughout the whole year. I mean, not that driving around the ranch is still great, but it's definitely, you know, everyone wants to go boost cruise through the exotic pastures in the spring and summer. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we got a group of business guys coming in this weekend. That's you know, that was one of the top things on their list of what they were wanting to do. Let's, hey, let's shoot skeet and let's let's go, you know, give an exotic tour.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

And and you know, that's what I call non-consumptive use on on these ranches. You know, so much of it is consumptive. A guy's coming to pay a price to kill a deer and take it home. And I've always liked the idea of diversifying ranches, uh, whether commercial ranches or not, um, to have more of a 365-day a year recreational model, uh, whether it's for profit, uh profit or not. Yeah. Um, and of course, I understand you probably don't have a lot of guests in August when it's 111 degrees in Freer America.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

But yeah, it slows down that time of year for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Everybody stays in the pool most of the time. Probably so, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

So, what what's on the horizon for you guys? I know y'all are always looking for new things. What's up?

SPEAKER_01 54:28

We are, you know, this year, some of the big projects on the list. We're doing a bunch of road work this year and and improving um some of our roads on the ranch, and we're building some new structures. We're um, you know, been blessed to hire some additional employees. So there's some new uh some some additional housing that we're gonna put up this year. We're um building a new ranch office and skin and shed and improving on some of that. Um so yeah, constantly looking for ways that we can, you know, improve on the ranch. And uh those projects just never end.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

And we we actually purchased our own bulldozer this year as well. So we're doing and hired a very skilled operator to run it for us. We we've always implemented um dozers on doing habitat work every year and always had that in our budget to plan for each year. We try to, you know, do a big habitat project every year and improve an area. And now that we have that equipment ourselves, we ended up we were doing so much of it, it it just made sense for us to start doing that ourselves and have it full time and um and own it. And so now that we're we have that, um, we're gonna do a lot more, but still keep it limited. You know, you can't just go in there and do it all at once. So it's gonna be an ongoing project, but um, having that as a tool to manage that land is gonna be huge going forward.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

Yeah, let's let's talk about that mechanical manipulation a little bit more. You know, back in the 50s and 60s, it was chaining. Yes, sir. And then it became root plow and you know, throwing out buffal seed on root plow. Because at that time, um, these ranches were all about cattle. The deer didn't have much value. People just hunted them for meat. They were kind of an afterthought. You know, decades later, uh-oh, we've got a bunch of monoculture pastures in South Texas because we overdid the chaining and we overdid the root plowing, and they all came back and you know, regrowth mesquite, we set, things like that. Um, what kinds of manipulation are you all doing? I mean, there's a place for all of that, but it has to be planned.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Yeah, I think a a good diversity is is, you know, kind of the answer. Um, there's a place for all of it, like you say, depending on what your goals are, and and having just different areas of secession throughout the ranch is important as well, not just having the same thing throughout. Um, we do a lot of, we'll come into certain areas that are just solid brush and we'll try to open up whether it be we've done different formats like a modded format or we've done strips, um checkerboard formats, you know, we'll come in and do different things. And typically we do that with the with the, you know, we'll blade off that brush first and then follow it up with a root plow and stack all that brush, and then we'll come in and plant those native grasses.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

And that opens up areas that otherwise were just um, you know, solid uh brush. And you know, the brush is great and definitely provides a benefit, but you don't want it to be the only thing. So um that's kind of what we've done the most of. And also doing that, you know, and taking out that regrowth brush in areas that have been previously roller chopped, like you say, um helps so much, like like you were saying before, you know, that 17 inches of rainfall we get every year. We want to utilize as much of that as we can to benefit the land that it falls on. And if it's fallen on regrowth mesquite, that's what it's going to, and that's not providing you much benefit. So we try to, you know, create areas and take out those those brush species and those rego species that are sucking up so much of our moisture, and uh that way it can go into forb growth. Um and disc and properly at certain times of the year, prescribe burning properly at certain times of the year, all that goes into it as well. Um, areas that have good soil and hold water, you know, if you got that one dang spot that is always muddy, we can come in with that dozer and make a little hole right there, and that'd be an area now that's just a natural tank that's going to catch that rainfall and hold it for even longer. Sure. Um, so different things like that we try to we try to try to do um just to get the most bang for our buck um when it comes to to to our rainfall every year and the land that we have to work with, you know.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Um yeah, I bet to to somebody in California the thought of intentionally starting a fire is is pretty scary to people that aren't involved in in forestry, but um it's a very common tool here in Texas, and this kind of goes back to that conversation about you know uh native grasses versus introduced species. It's really hard to carry a fire in South Texas. It takes a lot of fuel to burn a pasture, and some pastures will never get there. So in a case where let's say you root plow a strip and stack it uh and plant, you know, introduce grasses maybe, now it'll carry a fire, which is a huge part of all species, but more the birds, you know, the quail, the turkeys are being utilize those areas. So um I think it's good that you all do that because burning a pasture is just not possible in some areas.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

Yeah, no, like you say, I there's places I wish I could carry a fire through to get the the benefit that it leaves behind with adding nitrogen back to the soil and all those things, but like you say, it you it takes that fuel to be able to do that. So in those areas, you know, buffal grass is a huge fuel source and it's real easy to carry a uh fire through a buffal grass field, and buffal grass can tolerate it and come back so quick. But a lot of our areas where it's the native grasses versus the buffal grass, we try to be real cautious in those areas um and just kind of burn more in like patches and alternate. You know, we won't burn the same spot two years in a row, for example. Um, it's real easy to go get fire happy in February and then not knowing if you're gonna get those rains in March and April, and you can really kind of burn yourself into a hole or into a corner if you if you do a lot of that and then not get those springs. You can create a void and it doesn't all of a sudden, oh dang, it didn't green up like I thought it might, and uh you're in a bind. But um, but there's definitely a place for fire, I feel like, on probably, you know, almost every property. Uh just got to be smart about it and and pick areas and and think about it ahead of time and and plan for if you don't get rain. And um anyway, so we uh we try to do that and and just use it selectively in certain areas and keep up with records and knowing what we did in years past and you know and alternate areas as well. Sound like a crazy question. Do you have any windmills left? We do. Um none functioning though. Really? Um, yeah, we've converted all of our windmills to to solar, to solar wells. And you know, sometimes I yeah, I mean, I know solar wells aren't perfect. I'll say that. We definitely have our fair share of of you know breakdowns with them as well, but they just seem to be a little more efficient than your than your windmill. But we leave all the windmills up, so there's still plenty to look at. Yeah, you have to. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

It's funny how many ranches I go on now and it's all solar, and and of course, electric submersible pumps where electricity is available. But I I kind of miss seeing the old windmills and hearing them. Yeah, no, no doubt. No doubt. They definitely add value.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

Yeah, yeah, you know that more than anyone, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

So let's let's back off of the silver horn for a minute and and and take a little bit broader look at wildlife and Texas and things that are going on. Um uh I I know that you're involved and you stay very well informed uh politically. Um is CWD just scare the hell out of you? Chronic wasting disease?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

Uh well the disease doesn't per se, but um some of the regulations do. And um, I mean it's it's definitely something that we need to, you know, the state needs to have a plan for and and manage for. Um it's a legitimate disease and it's you know something that's out there um that that could have an impact on on whitetail deer. But um yeah, I just you know, I sometimes wish that was handled differently and not be such a burden on landowners and and deer managers like it has been. Um, you know, it's interesting. The screw worm is a big topic right now, and we're you know, that's a uh upcoming threat to Texas and and to our livestock and to our wildlife. And it's it's just been interesting to see how it's currently, you know, knock on wood, we don't have it in the state just yet that we know of, but it's it's probably coming, right? And there's already been so much uh education put out, and you know, there's currently a published playbook online from Texas Animal Health Commission of what they how they plan to handle screwworm when it does show up in South Texas. And I it's very clear what they're gonna do and what they're gonna implement as far as quarantine zones. Like that's published and there. And as a landowner and as a manager, you can see what to prepare for and what to expect. That was never the case with CWD. It just was kind of made up on the fly and a case-by-case basis. And um and maybe I'm not a veterinarian or a scientist, you know, maybe I'm not comparing apples to apples, you know, as far as screw worms versus chronic wasting disease. But um, you know, they're both both things that a regulatory agency is is being tasked with managing and just to see those the ways that it seems like they're going to be managed differently is is is a it's a huge contrast. And um that's how I wish, you know, as a manager and as someone that was having to abide by all these regulations that were being forced upon us, it would have been nice to uh have you know a little bit of a heads up and feel like we were working with our agency than them working against us. And you know, just with a screwworm deal, it's you know, not even here yet. And there's already that playbook published. And I was attending uh town hall meetings that Animal Health Commission was having at the cell barn in George West, I don't know, six, eight months ago. Um I mean they've just been so on top of it and and and and you know providing those tools for the for us to to know how what what to expect. And um anyways, it just would have been sure nice to have had that with chronic wasting disease. So and hopefully we can get there eventually, and and you know, it's not something that is you know been a huge impact on on our native deer herd or anything like that, um, which is great. And and um so hopefully that can transition. And I think there has been some improvements with the way it's been managed um here recently, um, with some of the surveillance zones and whatnot, you know, going away. Um, so hopefully that continues and and we're able to get to a place where everybody's able to live with it. And there's just been a lot of damage that's already put on private landowners and a lot of expense, deer breeders, tons of expense. And so a lot of that damage has already, you know, been there.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Um well, as you know, that was a little bit of a tongue-in-cheek question that I asked you if if you were afraid of CWD. Yeah, in light of the fact that there has not been one case found in the state of Texas. Deer have tested positive for the preon, which is what would you call it? Uh A condition that opens the deer up to being infected with chronic wasting disease. But we have not had one single case of chronic wasting disease in the state of Texas being confirmed. And it's hard for landowners to swallow all of the trouble and the hoops they've had to jump through knowing that. When, as you said, I am really afraid of this screwworm thing. It scares the hell out of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:27

It does. It does. Yeah, the more I learn about it, the more fearful I get as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

Yeah. And it and I agree with you, Texas Animal Health Commission's done a good job of kind of trying to get everybody cooked up and knowing what to look for and what to do when you see it. But there's really no solution out there yet. We the, you know, the the answer is the sterile fly. Sure. That I mean, we know. We've done it before. I I remember when I was a little boy, I can remember collecting larvae and all doing all that stuff. Um, but we don't have the capacity to produce the flies right now enough enough to fight them off. So it's really um it's really scary. And and we are, you and I are at the we're the front line in the United States of America. I mean, it's coming here first.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

Exactly. Yeah, we're in a bad spot when it comes to that. So it's gonna be, you know, I hope that everyone understands the importance of getting those those facilities up and going as quickly as possible. And I hope they don't move at the speed of government. Um, like I'm afraid of they might as far as getting those that facility that they're working on up in uh up in producing.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:38

Sure. Yeah, there's there's um there's several methods out there that that sound feasible to me, yeah. Um, especially the ones that are coming from private industry. Yes. Uh, I mean, again, the screw worm is, I mean, excuse me, the sterile flight is the answer, but I'm afraid it's too little, too late. Right. Uh, and there have been discussions about you know, feed additives, uh, being able to treat wildlife and livestock. Uh, and then there have been these uh mobile units, mobile sterilization units that are that are certainly feasible. But um so far the government hasn't adopted either one of those two methods. Right. And uh I'm afraid that we're gonna have to get I think we're gonna need all the tools available to win, is what I'm getting at. Because the um and I didn't mean to get off on a on a trail here, but um back when the screw worm was so bad here in the 50s, 60s, 70s, um deer were depending on the area, there was a deer to 30 acres. Well now we have feral hogs that are everywhere, and they don't mine fences at all. I mean, to me that's that's the super spreader. Got it. Deer in some areas are a deer to three or four acres. Right. At exotics, we have I don't know, 10, 15 times the hosts available to that to that fly these days. And it it's just spooky. I didn't mean to bring up a bad subject, but it's it's pretty spooky.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

No, it's worth yeah, it's something we all need to continue to talk about and learn about and be aware of, um, so we can figure out what the heck we're gonna do to manage it, because I do think it's gonna be something that, you know, um is gonna be part of our lives here before we know it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Right. And you know, uh, on top of that, I I know you've been watching the news. Uh, I'm near Corpus Christi, you all these towns talking about running out of drinking water all of a sudden, and it leaves me and you wondering I don't depend on the tap to get my water, but some of these proposed plans to start sucking water out of our water tables, what happens at the silver horn one day when it just doesn't come out of the ground anymore?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

You know, that yeah, I don't know. That that'd be a bad day.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

I know that. What does it do to real estate values? Right. You know, what what's my ranch worth when I don't have water?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

Yeah, not not as much as it as it is with water, that's for sure. It's pretty much huge, it really is. Um it really is. I mean, it's the biggest, biggest challenge probably in our neck of the woods.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

Yeah, no, I agree a hundred percent. Um, is there anything else you wanted to talk about today, Ben? Any anything you want to get out there?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

Man, you know, um I think I think this this this podcast is such a cool platform, and I'm honored that you um you may have butt dialed me that day. Maybe you meant to call somebody else, not real sure why I'm here, but uh no, it it's such a cool platform and and I look forward to to hearing the other guests that you have on and uh the amount of knowledge you're gonna bring into this room and the amount of stories and and Texas history, and I can't wait to uh to learn all those all those things from those guests and uh continue that. So yeah, just honored to be here and and uh to be a part of it and uh look forward to to seeing all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Well, obviously it's it's contributions from people like you that will make it go. Um, you know, there's there's so many different things to talk about. Um people like you, we can talk X's and O's, and people can learn different techniques, right? Learn things that are going on on these private ranches. Um and uh we've got some some older folks that know things that they've already forgotten more than you and I know. And when they're gone, we we won't have access to that information, so we're gonna try to bring as much of that stuff, you know, to the table as we can. I I think it'll be a lot of fun. And what did you say? You uh Wyatt's eight now. He's eight and West is five. Yeah. Where are they gonna hear this stuff? Right, you know, right? No, I I agree, I agree. That's what that's what really affects me knowing that that all of this has been such a big part of my life and your yours too. Yes, and uh not only do I hope that we have young people who are interested in it, like I know yours will be, uh, but will the will the information be available to them?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

Um yeah, and that's our responsibility to to to do, you know. I think, like you say, it's providing um education for our future generation. And that's so important to be able to continue the lifestyle that that you and I both love and grew up doing. Um there's got to be people to follow in those footsteps and with the way this world's changing. Um, yeah, I think a lot of the things that we grew up doing and and this lifestyle that we live down here um is gonna hopefully become even more valuable and uh and important in in continuing.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:45

Yeah, and and and I think you know, there's another aspect to it, and that is um Texas is so weird. I, you know, we're just so different than than than the rest of the country. Um, I want people outside the state to know what we do and why we do it. You know, I I think there's this perception out there of small high fence places and pens and can hunts and those, you know, just straight up profiteering at the expense of the wildlife. Right. There's nobody out there that loves animals more than you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

No, you're absolutely right. I mean, the amount of expense and effort that private landowners in Texas go to go to to provide, you know, for this wildlife is just it's crazy what we do. Sure. And and even what our whole, what my whole life has been dedicated towards. Right. And and and uh and a lot of people's. And uh yeah, it's very, very important to us and something that we you know no one holds more near and dear to their heart than us as as landowners and managers.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

Right. And I'm I'm super, super grateful to people like you. Um it it goes into research, you know, things that you might learn about a species here in Texas might be used in their native land that's never been figured out because they've never you see them every single day. Yes, sir. You know what they're doing, you know what their habits are, and you know what the challenges are. Yes, sir. Without exotic ranches, how would people learn those things? You know, you don't learn it out in the wild, is what I'm getting at. Uh or in places that don't have the funding to do things the way that they're done here. So uh obviously your efforts, but but but people like the family that you work for, I mean their their contribution is just huge. You you can't immunerate it. It's just it's just incalculable. Oh 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:44

I agree, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

But uh anyway, um I did uh bring you a little uh give awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:53

I I gave you some caps, but I can tell I'm gonna have to give you more because I didn't oh my my boys will have those taken before I get back to the house.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

But you can open up that whenever you want. But thank you. I brought you this, Ben. Um doubling back a little bit. I I'm really um worried about loss of license sales in the state of Texas. You know, our population's growing, and as a percentage of the population, hunting license sales are dropping. Um and we need to fix that. And a lot of that's communication and introducing people, you know, to our sport, uh to our way of life uh that can carry that forward. Absolutely. So that's a certificate for a 22 rifle. It's a little bitty. You it when when you and I were younger, it was called a chipmunk. I think they call it something different now. Yeah. Um, that's from the my friends at the sharpshooter uh gun shop there in Corpus. Cool. Super guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

And um I would like for you to use that to introduce somebody who doesn't know or doesn't have the opportunity. Um, I would be honored. That's awesome. If that's a kid at your church, yes, sir, or if the local 4-H group can raffle that off. No, I've got some kids in mind already. I would love for you to use that to to your liking.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:15

It it will be. That's awesome. Thank you, Mark.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

And I hope your boys aren't mad at me that I didn't give you two for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:21

No, they've they've got plenty of all that. They've got plenty of all that. It will definitely that's no, that's very important. It's very important. And and and that's yeah, that's been another thing that Silverhorn's been so awesome about. Like, there's been a lot of first deer, you know, harvested on Silverhorn. I love that. And that's like my favorite hunt, right? You know, um, that's the best guiding uh um task you can have is being able to take a kid on their first hunt.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

So I knew that Brad was doing that, but I didn't on film want to ask you that question. But everything that y'all do for youth is really special.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

Yes, sir. No, I agree. That's that's what's important. That's the that's the main deal. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:02

Well, again, thank you for being here. And and you know, your depth of knowledge is just incredible and always has been. So I appreciate your your dedication to everything. And folks, thank you all for joining us today. Um, I'm sure we'll have Ben back another day because he knows a whole lot more than what he's than what he spilled today. I'll see if I can pull some more out of him. But thank you for joining the uh Texas Campfire podcast. And remember, life's always better when it's good on your feet.